Characters, Plot, and Most Definitely SPOILERS!


Characters, Plot, and Most Definitely SPOILERS!

Postby ayesha » Tue May 13, 2014 9:52 am

It's been years since I've discussed anything Phantom related. Speaking just for myself, I got to the point where I didn't know what else to say about it. When I heard that the POTO sequel was to be based on Forsythe's Phantom of Manhattan I was shocked. I couldn't believe that ALW would even consider such a thought...

But for those of you who have watched POM and hated it, I can tell you right here that ALW made a lot of changes to the story. The main plot is still there, though... Christine comes to America with her husband (Raoul) and their son to perform at the request of Oscar Hammerstein (was this to be Oscar Hammerstein II's father, maybe, or is that just coincidence?).

** NOW HERE COME THE SPOILERS IN CASE YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE. IF YOU HAVEN'T SEEN THE MOVIE YOU MAY WANT TO STOP READING RIGHT HERE **

It's been a few years since I've read POM so I honestly don't remember the whole plot. All I remember for sure was that the location was Manhattan (NYC, USA) and that the story was told from the viewpoints of everyone except the main characters. And I think that is what bothered me the most about it because it was just like reading a bunch of heresay and third-party gossip. Forsythe's story never really showed the dynamics of the Phantom-Christine-Raoul relationship up close.

But LND does - and does it beautifully! For me, it was awesome to watch the love dynamic between the Phantom and Christine. ALW's LND dispels a lot of the mystery of the Phantom as the Phantom is quite prominent in this version. So as far as the Phantom, Christine - and the MUSIC - oh my gosh, I don't think I could have asked for anything more satisfying.

With that said, it doesn't mean that I liked everything.

For one thing, I was extremely disappointed in the Characters of Mme Giry and Meg. Don't get me wrong - the actors were wonderful...it was just the characters themselves that I was disappointed in. To be honest, I can't remember if their characters were a part of the original POM plot or not (which goes to show how little effect that POM had on me). I really liked both Mme Giry and Meg in the GB POTO movie so what their characters have become in this version was a big disappointment.

And the ending... I THINK that POM may have ended this way (again, I don't remember for sure). It's reminiscent (to me) of a Susan Kay ending...sad - yet - considering the Phantom, so typical of the way things seem to turn out for him.

Was the Phantom redeemed in this? No, I don't think so necessarily. As in the original POTO, I felt very sorry for Christine. While I love the Phantom, it upset me to see him goad Christine - first, with her son (when he threatened to make Gustave "disappear on Coney Island" if she didn't sing for him) and when she finally agreed to sing, he made the "Devil Take the Hindmost" pact with Raoul. So, redeemed? No. He's TOTALLY the Phantom.

Well, this is just a start. I've noticed that there doesn't seem to be near the traffic here that there used to be, so I'm not sure if anyone is interested in discussing. If so, I'm more than happy to discuss; if not, that's OK - just be sure to watch the show. Believe me, the music and the Phantom are so worth it!
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Re: Characters, Plot, and Most Definitely SPOILERS!

Postby Godzuki » Tue May 13, 2014 11:03 am

Ayesha, I agree with you on MG/Meg, they seem so cold and hard in LND and while MG was not a warm person in POTO, she was much more mysterious and even protective. She kept reminding me of Frau Farbissina from Austin Powers :rofl: , she was just so over the top IMO. I guess they were trying to show that even though they had new lives, it wasn’t quite what they had dreamed of? :hmm:

I know this has always been a tragic love story from the beginning and didn’t really expect a HEA where C/E/little G skip off together, but it was so gut wrenching at the end. They were so close to that HEA and Ben Lewis acting was so good, I really felt he was going to end it all til G stopped him. :( I did feel that G/E eventually had a HEA as father/son, but such tragedy to learn to live with. I can see why ALW has said he will never watch the final 15 mins again- its so hrd to watch!

When LND first came out there was so much undeserved negativity. I remember conversations on FB where admins had to remove messages and threaten to ban people! Sound familiar? If you don’t like a show, don’t watch it, give constructive criticism, etc but I could not believe how infantile and manipulative the behavior was! I’ve come to the point where I think comments on news articles should be inactivated; an article will be about a little kid learning how to walk again or something and you’d expect there to be positive comments, but I see again and again people turning just about everything into political arguments, using foul language, threats and demeaning insults. Can no one carry on intelligent, respectful, conversations anymore?

But I digress! Perhaps my very favorite scene was BAMS, C and the P haven’t seen each other for a decade and their reunion is just as emotional and stormy as I could hope for! C faints and the P picks her up, Oh I just love it when he does that *sigh* LOL :love: I love how romantic their flash back is as they describe their one night together, they realize they belong together and should have been all this time, they are just aching for each other. Every time I hear this song, I get goose bumps, I just love it so much

Yes, please do come back and discuss more!!! :pray: :clap: :yay:
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Re: Characters, Plot, and Most Definitely SPOILERS!

Postby ayesha » Tue May 13, 2014 3:20 pm

I did feel that G/E eventually had a HEA as father/son, but such tragedy to learn to live with. I can see why ALW has said he will never watch the final 15 mins again- its so hrd to watch!

I thought so, too....that Erik (OK, maybe not his name in ALW's Phantom but that's how I will always think of him) would be there to support, encourage and teach his son about music. My, what AWESOME music those two could have made together! I have a hard time watching the Phantom and Christine together as she lay dying...but when Gustave touches the Phantom at the very end, caresses his father's face - I think it's "beautiful, so very beautiful"!
When LND first came out there was so much undeserved negativity. I remember conversations on FB where admins had to remove messages and threaten to ban people! Sound familiar? If you don’t like a show, don’t watch it, give constructive criticism, etc but I could not believe how infantile and manipulative the behavior was!

Oh, my, after all this time...such die-hard fans, evidently. The original POTO ended as a mystery - what happened to the Phantom? Did Christine and Raoul go off together and make a life together, never to hear from the Phantom again? Gosh, the fanfics, the dialogue, the endless plots, subplots, hidden meanings, and SO MANY threads!! Back then, it seemed like the discussions would never end. But you are right about the negativity. To be honest, I didn't care for Forsythe's novel, POM, but LND has very little in common with it. However, I do think that LND probably turned away a lot of fans. There were so many people who thought that Erik would have been better off with another woman, and many of them thought that other woman should have been Meg. As connected as the Phantom was to Christine, it was hard for me to imagine him with anyone else - especially having the same passion that he'd had for Christine. But...there used to be tons of arguments over it. Anyway, I can understand where those people wouldn't like LND. While I may not care for the fact that Christine dies, I still enjoy the show. And the music....I find myself humming the LND songs even when I'm at work!

So good to talk to you again, Godzuki! :hearts:
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Re: Characters, Plot, and Most Definitely SPOILERS!

Postby Godzuki » Thu May 15, 2014 3:00 pm

I can see why someone might not want or accept a sequel. For example, I’m a huge fan of Star Wars and while I liked seeing Anakin’s backstory, felt the 3 prequels just didn’t have the fun and soul of Epis 4,5,& 6. Now a new sequel is in the works and while I’m curious, I just have a feeling that people need to move on to new stories, that Star Wars is “done” LOL. But….thats just me! Many have said that POTO is perfect all by itself and doesn’t need a sequel and I can respect that.

I however am thrilled that ALW decided to finish his version of the story and revealed that E/C really did love each other, a love that never died. The music is just so beautiful and they really did such a great job of showing their passion and steadfastness. It was such a thrill for me to get both my album and movie DVD in the mail. I actually carried them around with me the rest of the day, keeping them in my sight until I got my chance to listen/view LOL
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Re: Characters, Plot, and Most Definitely SPOILERS!

Postby Godzuki » Thu May 15, 2014 3:01 pm

What did you think of the fact that R/C had been married for 10 years but Gustave had no brothers or sisters? Now it could be that they had fertility issues or had suffered miscarriage but they don’t mention any whys. I think it was symbolic of how E had C’s heart all this time. G asks if R loves him, even he knows something is wrong. Do you think R knew deep down that G wasn't his? I loved seeing the dynamic between E and his son, they were so full of life with each other
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