LND....


LND....

Postby ayesha » Wed May 14, 2014 10:52 am

What do the Phantom and Christine mean when they say that the Phantom left her? I always thought it was the other way around. In BAMS they mention this... Any thoughts? :pray:
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Re: LND....

Postby nightsmusic » Wed May 14, 2014 11:57 am

She came back to him and they spent the night together. Then in the morning, when she was ready to tell him she would go anywhere with him, he'd already left her alone. They lived their lives at cross-purposes.
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Re: LND....

Postby Godzuki » Thu May 15, 2014 11:42 am

nightsmusic wrote:She came back to him and they spent the night together. Then in the morning, when she was ready to tell him she would go anywhere with him, he'd already left her alone. They lived their lives at cross-purposes.


I love the emotion in her voice when she sings "and found you GONE instead" - it says so much! In that moment E realizes he made a terrible mistake and he had been wrong all this time. Oh how this makes me want to go back in time for them!

I do love that even though she was devastated, she understood why he did it, she knew him that well

*sigh* I'm such a sucker for a good love story :P :hearts:
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Re: LND....

Postby ayesha » Thu May 15, 2014 1:50 pm

She came back to him and they spent the night together. Then in the morning, when she was ready to tell him she would go anywhere with him, he'd already left her alone. They lived their lives at cross-purposes.
:what: WHY WOULD HE DO THAT??!! :argh: If she returned to him, slept with him, why would he leave her??!! I really can't get my head around that one. :ohno: :foot: (Am I the only one who has a problem with this? Yes, I know - just a story - but humor me)! ;)

And I thought they insinuated that he'd slept with her that night that he took her from her dressing room down into his lair? :really: :doh:

OK....LOVE LND, just luv it! I love all the music in this. Remember Phantasia? Is there a CD available that has the songs for BOTH POTO and LND?

But as much as I love it, there are a few things that I have a problem with and wondered what everyone else thinks...

I just saw the "spoiler" code and have to use it, ;)

Spoiler:
First and foremost: Mme Giry and Meg... Did the writers feel that they needed another protagonist besides Raoul and so they used Mme Giry and Meg? I've seen the POTO stage show once - when we all had gone to DC - and from what I remember, the stage show didn't delve into Mme Giry's and the Phantom's past. I've always felt that Mme Giry loved and understood the Phantom; that she certainly understood his devotion and love for Christine. From having watched LND I get the impression that she encouraged Meg to become a (so called) secondary Christine. I can see Mme Giry and Meg going to America with the Phantom. The Opera Populaire is gone, their home, their careers, their lives all gone. I can see them assisting the Phantom in a similar endeavor in America, far away from Christine. But WHY would Mme Giry attempt to push Meg toward the Phantom, knowing him as she did? She must have known that no other woman would mean as much to him as Christine did. Did the Phantom encourage this somehow? I can see him offering them a home, a place and a chance to continue their careers in payment for their loyalty...but outside of that...I don't see why they seemed to expect so much more? I also got the impression that Mme Giry was the motivation behind Meg's desire to "please" the Phantom. The Phantom referred to his current endeavors as "smoke and noise." I don't think a cabaret is what the Phantom had in mind for his music...only that it fit in well on Coney Island and Meg evidently excelled in that sort of theater. But that wasn't where the Phantom's heart lay. I liked Meg's character, in spite of how misguided she was...and I think she truly loved Christine. But Mme Giry was so different from the Mme Giry that I remember from the movie. :(


I loved Ben Lewis as the Phantom. Granted, he (himself) is not as handsome as Gerry but I still think he portrayed a phabulous Phantom! I think the combination of the mask, heavy makeup and the Phantom's clothes make ALL the actors look phantomishly enticing! :banana: And I ADORED Ben's voice!! (I honestly CAN'T get TIHYSA out of my head)!!! BUT he's no Gerry Butler. Really, even with his mask removed and all the "ugly" makeup, Gerry still looked incredibly hot.

But take a good look at Ben in the scene after his son takes his mask off. The camera angle is at Christne's back and is full-face on the Phantom. He looks so much like a well-known actor/singer that it totally spoiled the moment for me. I'm not going to tell you who it is; I'm wondering if anyone else sees it, too (or is it just me)? Other than that, he's definitely one of my phavorite phantoms!

I have more thoughts but no more time to type them out. I'm at the library right now and need to get home so I'll be "talking" to you guys later! :wave:
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Re: LND....

Postby Godzuki » Thu May 15, 2014 2:44 pm

ayesha wrote: If she returned to him, slept with him, why would he leave her??!! I really can't get my head around that one. :ohno: :foot: (Am I the only one who has a problem with this? Yes, I know - just a story - but humor me)! ;)
I think thats why C slaps him so hard LOL

I think he had spent so many years being an object of horror/revulsion that he half believed it himself :( He saw how she felt for him and felt he was no good for her and that she would be better off without him. But over the decade they were apart, I think a small voice demanded "Are you so sure about that?" and it ate at him, until he couldn't take it anymore. I do love that they finally fully realize they belong together in this song though :love:


OK....LOVE LND, just luv it! I love all the music in this. Remember Phantasia? Is there a CD available that has the songs for BOTH POTO and LND?
I would LOVE to have an instrumental POTO/LND CD!!!!! Will keep my eyes open for that!!!!! I'm gonna look up RUG's email and ask them if any in the works!!!!!! :pray:


But WHY would Mme Giry attempt to push Meg toward the Phantom, knowing him as she did? She must have known that no other woman would mean as much to him as Christine did.
Maybe he kept his grieving to himself and MG/Meg didn't know how much he missed her? :hmm:

Did the Phantom encourage this somehow?
I didn't see any evidence of that, but sometimes when all someone is doing is showing kindness, it can sometimes be perceived as something more (wishful thinking, perhaps?)


But take a good look at Ben in the scene after his son takes his mask off. The camera angle is at Christne's back and is full-face on the Phantom. He looks so much like a well-known actor/singer that it totally spoiled the moment for me. I'm not going to tell you who it is; I'm wondering if anyone else sees it, too (or is it just me)? Other than that, he's definitely one of my phavorite phantoms!
I need to go back and look at that scene now! You have me intrigued!

I have more thoughts but no more time to type them out. I'm at the library right now and need to get home so I'll be "talking" to you guys later! :wave:
Can't wait!!!!! :banana:
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Re: LND....

Postby nightsmusic » Thu May 15, 2014 3:26 pm

I don't recall them insinuating that P & C slept together when he took her from the stage.

She cries out to him, I came and found you. You took me, several times. The next morning, when I realized that I would follow you anywhere, you were gone!

His implied reply to that was, I thought I was disgusting for taking you without marriage, I knew I could never offer you the life you deserved, I thought it would be better to leave than to cage you to a beast.



C: I should have known that you'd be here
I should have known it all along
This whole arrangement bears your stamp
You're in each measure of that song
How dare you try and claim me now?
How dare you come invade my life?

P: Oh, Christine, my Christine
In that time when the world thought me dead
My Christine, on that night just before you were wed
Ah, Christine, you came and found where I hid

Don't you deny that you did
That long ago night

That night

C: Once there was a night beneath a moonless sky
Too dark to see a thing, too dark to even try
I stole to your side to tell you I must go
I couldn't see your face but sensed you even so

B: And I touched you
And I felt you
And I heard those ravishing refrains
The music of your pulse
The singing in your veins

And I held you
And I touched you
And embraced you
And I felt you

And with every breath and every sigh
I felt no longer scared
I felt no longer shy
At last our feelings bared
Beneath a moonless sky

C: And blind in the dark, as soul gazed into soul
I looked into your heart and saw you pure and whole
Cloaked under the night with nothing to suppress
A woman and a man, no more and yet no less

B: And I kissed you
And caressed you
And the world around us fell away
We said things in the dark
We never dared to say


And I caught you
And I kissed you
And I took you
And I begged you

With a need too urgent to deny
And nothing mattered then
Except for you and I
Again and then again
Beneath a moonless sky


P: And when it was done before the sun could rise
Ashamed of what I was, afraid to see your eyes
I stood while you slept and whispered a goodbye
And slipped into the dark beneath a moonless sky

C: And I loved you
Yes, I loved you
I'd have followed anywhere you led
I woke to swear my love
And found you gone instead

B: And I loved you
(How I loved you)
And I left you
(And I loved you)

And I had to, both of us knew why
We both knew why
And yet I won't regret
From now until I die
The night I can't forget
Beneath a moonless sky

P: And now
C: How can you talk of now?
For us, there is no now

She left with Raoul and got talked into marrying him, but she knew where her heart lay and had to be sure before she made a huge mistake. She found P, probably with M Giry's help and that's when they spent their first (and last) night together. When P was gone, she thought he didn't love her. When P told M Giry what happened (and this little part is conjecture on my part) she probably thought that C had left HIM and that's when the bitterness set in. C learns she's pregnant but the timing tells her it isn't R's and the talent G shows bears that out.

In the meantime, whether M Giry pushed Meg at P or not, the bitterness kept eating at her. At one point she says he wouldn't have anything if not for her. Always for her, she'd committed her life to him and when C shows up, he's ready to throw it all away because he's still madly in love with C.

I don't think M Giry knew Meg's feelings for P. I think she only saw the ambition and not the underlying obsession with P. But for her, when she knew P would make G his heir and everything M Giry had worked for, for all of them, would escape her grasp, that's when she went a little off the deep end. When C came back, no matter how much Meg loved her, she saw her own fantasy of the P loving her go out the window. It was a tragedy waiting to happen.
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Re: LND....

Postby Godzuki » Thu May 15, 2014 3:41 pm

I love how he keeps calling her “my Christine” *sigh* :hearts: and I AM DYING to know what those “things in the dark we never dared to say” were!!!!!!!!! :pray: And what a night “again and then again” (E has staying power bwahahaha), “too urgent to deny” *swoon*

Oh how I’ve missed our conversations!!! Keep it coming!!!! :clap: :banana:
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Re: LND....

Postby ayesha » Sat May 17, 2014 2:45 pm

I'm at the library and it's time to log off...didn't realize I was so late...

I'll discuss this on Monday.
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Re: LND....

Postby ayesha » Mon May 19, 2014 8:41 am

I don't recall them insinuating that P & C slept together when he took her from the stage.

No, they never actually insinuated it (at least, not in POTO) but I assumed that's what P meant when he said that she'd found where he'd hid. I couldn't understand all the words when I first watched it, so I didn't realize that he was saying that she'd come back and found him.

She cries out to him, I came and found you. You took me, several times. The next morning, when I realized that I would follow you anywhere, you were gone!

His implied reply to that was, I thought I was disgusting for taking you without marriage, I knew I could never offer you the life you deserved, I thought it would be better to leave than to cage you to a beast.
I don't think those were Christine's words in the DVD that I watched...then again, I may have not understood what she'd said. As far as being disgusted, I thought he felt disgusted earlier after she'd kissed him in his lair. He was heartbroken when she left with Raoul; you'd think he would have been ecstatic when she'd returned (which I'm sure he was)...but why feel ugly again and feel that he couldn't offer her a good life? I'm sure, as much as they loved each other, they would have thought of something... I don't know...I guess it was a ploy to keep the drama going but, seriously, I would have felt like hitting him over the head with his magical lasso!

C: I should have known that you'd be here
I should have known it all along
This whole arrangement bears your stamp
You're in each measure of that song
How dare you try and claim me now?
How dare you come invade my life?

P: Oh, Christine, my Christine
In that time when the world thought me dead
My Christine, on that night just before you were wed
Ah, Christine, you came and found where I hid
Don't you deny that you did
That long ago night

That night


These words are different than what's on the DVD that I watched. Here's what was said on the DVD:

C: So it was all an empty lie
One final lie to fool us all
To make your death our story's end
To put your life beyond recall

How dare you come and claim me now?
Invade my life, ensnare my voice

PHANTOM
If you could know the pain I've known
Then you would know I had no choice
My Christine...

CHRISTINE
Your Christine
I was yours one brief night long ago
Long ago
With a man that I no longer know

PHANTOM
Ah, Christine
You came and found where I hid
Don't you deny that you did
That long ago night[/quote]

I think the words to the song are the same; and they are AWESOME!! I have to admit, I just love the scenes between C & P in LND!

She left with Raoul and got talked into marrying him, but she knew where her heart lay and had to be sure before she made a huge mistake. She found P, probably with M Giry's help and that's when they spent their first (and last) night together. When P was gone, she thought he didn't love her. When P told M Giry what happened (and this little part is conjecture on my part) she probably thought that C had left HIM and that's when the bitterness set in. C learns she's pregnant but the timing tells her it isn't R's and the talent G shows bears that out.


That was something else I didn't understand while watching the DVD. I realized Mme Giry may have thought that C left P when she left the lair with R. It could also be that when P returned from having been with Christine, that he'd never told Mme Giry what happened. Mme Giry may have only seen how distraught P was and just assumed that C had left him.

In the meantime, whether M Giry pushed Meg at P or not, the bitterness kept eating at her. At one point she says he wouldn't have anything if not for her. Always for her, she'd committed her life to him and when C shows up, he's ready to throw it all away because he's still madly in love with C.


While all along, the P yearns for C and writes cabaret music that he despises... So, the P merely used Mme Giry and Meg. Toward the end when Meg finally tells P what she's been through, she says that she'd given everything for him - even going to bed with strange men - all for him. I find it hard to believe that with all his talents that he wasn't helping them in some ways, providing for them.... Evidently, that wasn't the case. They provided for HIM and he repaid them by yearning for Christine.... H-m-m-m-m.... :really:

I don't think M Giry knew Meg's feelings for P. I think she only saw the ambition and not the underlying obsession with P. But for her, when she knew P would make G his heir and everything M Giry had worked for, for all of them, would escape her grasp, that's when she went a little off the deep end. When C came back, no matter how much Meg loved her, she saw her own fantasy of the P loving her go out the window. It was a tragedy waiting to happen.


I totally agree. How sad!
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Re: LND....

Postby ayesha » Mon May 19, 2014 11:14 am

Concerning the discourse between C & P, here are the all the lyrics to BAMS from the DVD (Australian LND):

Beneath A Moonless Sky

CHRISTINE
So it was all an empty lie
One final lie to fool us all
To make your death our story's end
To put your life beyond recall

How dare you come and claim me now?
Invade my life, ensnare my voice

PHANTOM
If you could know the pain I've known
Then you would know I had no choice
My Christine...

CHRISTINE
Your Christine
I was yours one brief night long ago
Long ago
With a man that I no longer know

PHANTOM
Ah, Christine
You came and found where I hid
Don't you deny that you did
That long ago night

Once there was a night beneath a moonless sky
Too dark to see a thing, too dark to even try

CHRISTINE
I stole to your side
Tormented by my choice
I couldn't see your face
Yet trembled at your voice

And I touched you

PHANTOM
And I felt you

BOTH
And I heard those ravishing refrains

CHRISTINE
The music of your pulse

PHANTOM
The singing in your veins

CHRISTINE
And I held you

PHANTOM
And I touched you

CHRISTINE
And embraced you

PHANTOM
And I felt you

BOTH
And with every breath and every sigh

CHRISTINE
I felt no longer scared

PHANTOM
I felt no longer shy

BOTH
At last our feelings bared, beneath a moonless sky

CHRISTINE
And blind in the dark, as soul gazed into soul
I looked into your heart and saw you pure and whole

PHANTOM
Cloaked under the night, with nothing to suppress
A woman and a man, no more and yet no less
And I kissed you

CHRISTINE
And caressed you

BOTH
And the world around us fell away
We said things in the dark, we never dared to say

PHANTOM
And I caught you

CHRISTINE
And I kissed you

PHANTOM
And I took you

CHRISTINE
And I begged you

BOTH
With a need too urgent to deny
As nothing mattered then, except for you and I
Again and then again, beneath a moonless sky


PHANTOM
And when it was done, before the sun could rise
Ashamed of what I was, afraid to see your eyes
I stood while you slept and whispered a good-bye
And slipped into the dark beneath a moonless sky

CHRISTINE
And I loved you, yes, I loved you
I'd have followed anywhere you led
I woke to swear my love, and found you gone instead

PHANTOM
And I loved you

CHRISTINE
Oh I loved you

PHANTOM
And I left you

CHRISTINE
How I loved you

PHANTOM
And I had to both of us knew why

CHRISTINE
We both knew why

BOTH
And yet I won't regret from now until I die
The night I can't forget beneath a moonless sky

PHANTOM
And now?

CHRISTINE
How can you talk of now? For us... there is no now.
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