Beauty and the Beast 2017


Re: Beauty and the Beast 2017

Postby Rose » Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:15 pm

Sorry I've been gone for a couple weeks, I've been too exhausted to do much of anything...work can be a pain in the butt sometimes :argh:

Godzuki Wrote

BTW did the prince have a name? I've heard that the cartoon prince was Prince Adam, but I honestly never heard anyone call him that either in the cartoon or the live version. Have I just missed it all this time? I hate to keep calling him “the Beast” cuz you know he has a name LOL


I was hoping they'd finally give him a name, but I guess they didn't want to get too complicated with the story...not that a 'name would be complicated', after all they gave the Prince a name in the live action Cinderella film, so their really was no reason not to do the same with Beast, who knows why they decided not to.

Adam is sort of the 'unofficial' name of the Beast, almost all the fans call him Adam in fan fiction and stuff, I don't know where they got that name, whether it was from Disney or not, but it's not really a very French sounding name, lol. I always thought he should be a Christophe or a Lucien :mrgreen:

UGH I wish I could figure out how to post images so you guys can see them, but basically the above is a tweet with the news that BatB is the "highest-grossing live-action movie musical in history, grossing $1 billion worldwide"!!!!!!


I'm not surprised, it had two things going for it...Disney and Nostalgia.

I was saying this to a friend of mine a few days ago but I noticed that even people who normally don't like 'musicals' went to see BATB. Why? Because 'they grew up with the cartoon', and I don't think many people label Animated Disney movies as 'muscials' even though that is really what they are and always have been.

People tend to put Disney into a seperate category all their own, maybe growing up with them has something to do with it, or maybe it's just because they are animated...but even as a huge lover of Broadway Musicals, I also tend to find myself lumping them into a different category then say POTO, or Les Miserables, I don't know why but I also see them as 'Disney Movies', rather then 'musicals', etc.

And because BATB was basically a live-action version of the Animated Film, I think it drew a lot more people then any straightup Broadway-Film adaption would have. Because people were going to see a 'Disney Movie', not a 'Musical'...even thougth it WAS a musical, lol :P
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Re: Beauty and the Beast 2017

Postby Godzuki » Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:57 pm

Hi Rose! Did you have any scenes that you liked better in the live action than the cartoon? As much as I love the cartoon version, when it came to the Beasts transformation, I preferred the live action version. In the cartoon, it just seemed so bizarre to me that light was shooting out of him, while Belle shivered in the rain, astounded. She saw the whole thing, but had trouble recognizing at first that it was really him. Even though he came over and said “its me” and took her hands, she still pulled back until she gazed into his eyes and realized it really was him. Then they sank happily into a kiss, best cartoon kiss ever LOL.

With the live version, I liked the visuals better, he rose into the air and was covered with glittery light; it looked more to me like the spell was being broken, not that he was about to explode or something LOL. When he realized he was human again, I loved the look on his face and the way he looked at Belle, both were just delighted as opposed to Belle’s cartoon version trying to figure out what da heck just happened. I loved that he stood there and waited for her to take it all in. His look was very warm and welcoming and as she approached him, they slipped so naturally into each others arms and kissed SIGH.

Didn’t his shirt make you think of E’s in the FL? Also the camera swirled around them while kissing a little like the kiss in the 2004 POTO, I liked that.
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Re: Beauty and the Beast 2017

Postby Rose » Wed Apr 26, 2017 1:21 am

Godzuki Wrote
Hi Rose! Did you have any scenes that you liked better in the live action than the cartoon? As much as I love the cartoon version, when it came to the Beasts transformation, I preferred the live action version. In the cartoon, it just seemed so bizarre to me that light was shooting out of him, while Belle shivered in the rain, astounded. She saw the whole thing, but had trouble recognizing at first that it was really him. Even though he came over and said “its me” and took her hands, she still pulled back until she gazed into his eyes and realized it really was him. Then they sank happily into a kiss, best cartoon kiss ever LOL.

With the live version, I liked the visuals better, he rose into the air and was covered with glittery light; it looked more to me like the spell was being broken, not that he was about to explode or something LOL. When he realized he was human again, I loved the look on his face and the way he looked at Belle, both were just delighted as opposed to Belle’s cartoon version trying to figure out what da heck just happened. I loved that he stood there and waited for her to take it all in. His look was very warm and welcoming and as she approached him, they slipped so naturally into each others arms and kissed SIGH.


I definitely felt they handled most of the ending better in the live-action film, although I love how you can see the fur and stuff melting away into the Princes face during the transformation in the Animated Version, everything else about the ending in the live-action film, I feel, was done much better. I liked that the Enchantress was THERE, I liked that it was literally too late as the last petal had fallen rather then Belle just by some miracle happening to say 'I love you' literally seconds before it fell... like it was done in the Animated Film.

Having it be too late, was I felt actually more realistic, for one thing it showcased the Beasts sacrifice when he let Belle go, he KNEW then that it was over for him, their was only four petals left on the rose, time had run out...even if Belle came back it would be too late. Hence it highlighted more how much he loved her, that her needs meant more to him then his own, even if he was doomed to remain forever a Beast that didn't matter...what mattered is that Belle got to her father in time, etc. I loved that, sure in the Animated Film we are suppose to realize the same thing (that he believes its too late for him) but Belle managing to save the day in the nick of time sort of takes away some of that I feel.

It also made the Enchantress more likable, as she literally went back on her word and reversed the curse out of mercy, showing she wasn't evil, I felt she was portrayed much much better in the live-action film, and I also LOVED how they showed the Servants/Objects becoming inanimate, that was so poignant and it added so much more depth and tragedy to the whole ending. Seriously, most people at my theater were crying during that scene where they basically 'die'. That was a brilliant addition, I thought and really made you feel for the servants as people, not just a talking candelabra or clock, etc

I also prefered the change of where Belle got her books in this version. In the Animated Film Belle got her books at a Book Shop which frankly...when you think about it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why would their be a Book Shop in the village where nobody but Belle is interested in reading? How would the Bookseller stay in business, plus Belle wasn't really buying any of the books she was 'borrowing' them which made it more like a library then a book shop but Belle calls it a 'book shop' and the sign says book shop, etc

They fixed this problem in the live-action film. Belle get's her books from the Church in this version. And it's obviously the Pastors private collection that he let's her read...which makes so much more sense. Their would be NO libarary or book shop when Belle was the 'only bookworm in town' , and the only other place Belle could get books would be the School but it's made very clear in the film that Belle wouldn't be allowed in their because only the Boys were allowed to read and get any sort of education (the villagers reaction when Belle was teaching the little girl how to read, etc). So it makes total sense that she'd have to get her books from the church...and their was only like 8 of them on that table, so it makes Belle's reaction when Beast gives her his libarary even more understandable as Belle went from re-reading the same 8 books to a libarary with Thousands of books...no wonder it meant so much to her.

I really liked the Pastor as well, you might not have noticed but he was the ONLY person in the village to treat Belle kindly and not look down on her for her love of reading. When the townspeople destroy her washing machine, he was the only one who stopped to help her. :)

Didn’t his shirt make you think of E’s in the FL? Also the camera swirled around them while kissing a little like the kiss in the 2004 POTO, I liked that.


Did you know that the transformation ending that we got in the film wasn't the orginal ending? The ending they orginally shot had the Prince (Dan Stevens) emerging shirtless from a pile of rose petals :o :mrgreen: I'm not kidding you, that's what they orginally shot, Dan was suppose to be without a shirt for the whole kiss with Emma/Belle, but when they tested the film with an audience, a lot of mother complained that it was too 'sexy' for their children so they had to reshoot the ending with Dan wearing a shirt :foot:

Here is the interview on Youtube where Dan talks about the orginal ending, and how he spent all this time getting into shape for it only to have reshoot it with his shirt on, lol https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Ll8z40SA7Q

I hope they include the original ending on the DVD/Blu-Ray, it's sort of frustrating that we could have had a sexier ending with the Prince, lol. But I do still love the ending as it is, that white shirt does sort of remind me of Erik, lol
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Re: Beauty and the Beast 2017

Postby Godzuki » Wed Apr 26, 2017 10:15 am

Rose wrote:I also LOVED how they showed the Servants/Objects becoming inanimate, that was so poignant and it added so much more depth and tragedy to the whole ending. Seriously, most people at my theater were crying during that scene where they basically 'die'. That was a brilliant addition, I thought and really made you feel for the servants as people, not just a talking candelabra or clock, etc
Oh I know, that was so heartbreaking and they were looking out for each other even til the end :(

I also prefered the change of where Belle got her books in this version. In the Animated Film Belle got her books at a Book Shop which frankly...when you think about it doesn't make a whole lot of sense. Why would their be a Book Shop in the village where nobody but Belle is interested in reading? How would the Bookseller stay in business, plus Belle wasn't really buying any of the books she was 'borrowing' them which made it more like a library then a book shop but Belle calls it a 'book shop' and the sign says book shop, etc

They fixed this problem in the live-action film. Belle get's her books from the Church in this version. And it's obviously the Pastors private collection that he let's her read...which makes so much more sense. Their would be NO libarary or book shop when Belle was the 'only bookworm in town' , and the only other place Belle could get books would be the School but it's made very clear in the film that Belle wouldn't be allowed in their because only the Boys were allowed to read and get any sort of education (the villagers reaction when Belle was teaching the little girl how to read, etc). So it makes total sense that she'd have to get her books from the church...and their was only like 8 of them on that table, so it makes Belle's reaction when Beast gives her his libarary even more understandable as Belle went from re-reading the same 8 books to a libarary with Thousands of books...no wonder it meant so much to her.
ITA


Did you know that the transformation ending that we got in the film wasn't the orginal ending? The ending they orginally shot had the Prince (Dan Stevens) emerging shirtless from a pile of rose petals :o :mrgreen: I'm not kidding you, that's what they orginally shot, Dan was suppose to be without a shirt for the whole kiss with Emma/Belle, but when they tested the film with an audience, a lot of mother complained that it was too 'sexy' for their children so they had to reshoot the ending with Dan wearing a shirt :foot:
Oh I gotta see this, please be an extra on the DVD! :pray: :mrgreen:

I hope they include the original ending on the DVD/Blu-Ray, it's sort of frustrating that we could have had a sexier ending with the Prince, lol. But I do still love the ending as it is, that white shirt does sort of remind me of Erik, lol

Haha, you and me both! and I have a feeling we are not the only ones! :mrgreen: :angel:
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Re: Beauty and the Beast 2017

Postby Rose » Tue Nov 28, 2017 4:18 am

Getting back into the BATB discussion I thought I'd talk a little bit about how the different characters grown and things they each have to learn throughout the story. The Beast is probably the most obvious and easiest in many ways so I will save him for last. Instead I'll start with a character whom many might think doesn't have to grow at all as she's already kind and courageous, but unbeknownst to many by the end of the story actually grows a great deal...Belle.

But before I dive into how Disney's version of Belle (in the 2017 film) grows and changes, I want to start with a discussion on the original story written in 1740 by French writer Madam Beaumont. I don't know how many people are actually familiar with Beaumont's original French telling of the tale (which although some form of Beauty and the Beast has been around since time immemorial, Madam Beaumont's version was THE most well known version at the time and is the version Cocteau based his 1946 film on).

The reason I want to talk about the original version is because in the original it's not so much the Beast who changes and grows as a character, although he does sort of start out as a jerk (demanding Belle's father give up one of his daughters in exchange for his life) and gets better as the story progresses, we are never really given much back-story on him, we don't know why he was cursed so it's hard to tell if he changes all that much or even if their is any sort of lesson he needed to learn, instead it's Belle who needed to learn something.

What many people might not realize is that the story of Belle, a young woman who is very close to her father, who is given against her will to this Beast she can't stand, who then slowly learns to see him with new eyes as she matures and then comes to fall in love with him, and in the end because she came to love and accept him is then rewarded with a handsome prince....this is really all a metaphor for arranged marriages. And that's really why Madam Beaumont wrote the story for her young readers. Back in 1740, arranged marriages were the norm, and picture a young woman being married off against her will to a man she finds repulsive, a big hairy brute in her eyes (so to speak) yet the message of the story is not to be so quick to judge a book by it's cover...if she'd be willing to give her new husband a chance and get to know him, who knows? The Beast might turn out to be a Prince in disguise...you get my point ;)

That was actually the original message of the story but it doesn't really resonate with us today as we no longer have arranged marriages. Disney's version is more about the general idea of true beauty being found within then any sort of marriage metaphor, however I still see hints of it in the film but done in a slightly different way. Instead of a marriage metaphor I see the story of a young woman maturing to the point where she is ready to be married, more of a coming of age story in a sense.

In the start of the film Belle is depicted as intelligent and headstrong, she's not afraid to do her own thing and be her own person regardless of what other's might think. However she is also innocent and somewhat naïve in a lot of ways too, she longs for adventure and a escape from the tiny town where nobody understands her. But all her ideas about how the world works comes from the books she reads, she's never experienced life outside her town, outside her father's protection, she longs for love but her idea of what love is also stems from her books...she expects Prince Charming.

Instead she get's a Beast.

This is important because Belle's arrival at the castle is really the catalyst for her growing up. Like a bird being kicked out of the nest Belle is on her own now and nothing is like what she thought it would be. Her adventure she longed for isn't always so fun, and things aren't so black and white either. I love the scene after the wolf fight when Belle's talking to the Objects/Servants and asks how they can defend the Beast when he got them cursed, and Mrs. Potts tells her about how the Beast was once a sweet little boy before his father 'twisted him up' and how they stood around and did nothing which is the reason they were cursed and Belle is taken aback...this wasn't what she expected. She was so certain the Beast was the bad guy and the Objects were the innocent victims of his wickedness and instead things are more complex then that.

Belle: How in the midst of all this sorrow, can so much hope and love endure, I was innocent and certain, now I'm wiser but unsure, I can't go back into my childhood, one that my Father made secure, I can feel a change in me, I'm stronger now but still not free


Belle's line in the song "Days' in the Sun" (above) states it quite well. Belle's growing up and learning the difference between a storybook and real life (even though the story is a fairy tale, the 'real world' of Belle is still different from her storybooks) And the biggest change I feel is when she and the Beast use the Magic Book to travel to Paris and Belle visits the home her father and mother lived in before her mother's death. I see this moment as Belle finally putting her childhood to rest, as a girl she had wondered about her mother, had probably pestered her father to death for information about her, had dreamed of how her life might be like if her mother hadn't died and now here she was in the place she had dreamed about faced with the cold hard reality of what had happened...and by seeing it she's able to finally let her mother go, and in a sense let her childhood go. It's sad but also freeing in a way, and what does Belle say to the Beast after? "Let's go home", home is with HIM now, not in a childhood fantasy of a past long gone although she doesn't realize it until the end.

I just feel Belle grows up in that scene and in the next scene (which is her dance with the Beast) she becomes a woman. She's with the guy she loves, he might not be Prince Charming from her books, but he's a Prince to her, horns and all,and in the end he really does turn out to be a Prince lol, but the idea is Belle had to let go of the idea of Prince Charming before she could be given her own version of Prince Charming who might not have arrived the way she thought he would but nonetheless is perfect for her.

The ending with Belle returning to her father only to realize in a sense that her home is not with him anymore but is with the Beast is also very much present from the original although it's told with Belle having to go save her father and then go back to save the Beast the metaphor is still under the surface. Let's just say their is a reason things don't change until Belle finally admits her love for the Beast. This is because like in the original story our perception of the characters and world is still being told through Belle's eyes. And things don't change until Belle changes. When she realizes her Beast isn't a' Beast' to her anymore but is her Prince, then he becomes a Prince. When she realized the castle isn't this foreboding place to her anymore but is 'home' it becomes a beautiful palace.

This is all a part of Belle's journey, and in the end of the story we see her marriage to her Prince, and what's her last words to her Prince..."can you grow a beard" LOL a funny line but showing she's come to love all parts of him, including his 'beast' side, she's grown up to understand the different sides of people where before everything was much more black and white to her.

Well that's it for Belle unless I think of anything more to add, next will probably be the Objects/Servants. :)
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