Symbolism of "Love Never Dies" (London show)- Act One

For those who believe, or want to, that there was more to the story...

Symbolism of "Love Never Dies" (London show)- Act One

Postby honeyphan » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:53 pm


update: 9/20/13 - now that we have all of the London show, expect this summary to be revised and added to. This is only what we had when we had the little bits and pieces...but here it is, for now. I showed the original words, which show the original intentions of the creator (there will be a thread that also shows all the changes made to lyrics):

Whether or not ALW intended to put in hidden plot symbolism to show this as a sequel to deeper movie story also, or to show yet another medium that strengthened the idea of the deeper story in 2004 PotO movie (as he also did with the CD Phantasia, and every other medium of PotO he has out there)- the fact remains – he did and it’s there. If he does intend this to be a movie sequel as well as stage show, he’ll have to do some fancy rewriting to make it fit (with the b & w scenes especially) but authors have done things like that, so I can see him doing it too. Or, he might make a movie sequel and say it’s a separate idea from the 2004 one – but still, the symbolism is all there in LND…and perhaps this “stand alone” story with the principal characters is in truth the sequel of the deeper story… and he is showing the hidden plot in a stronger way, one no longer hidden… the thing is - all the symbolism matches what we found in PotO movie. :rose:

This thread will point out all the clues my group and I have found, as well as everything that hit me as I was listening to songs, reading the recorded draft and libretto, and viewing footage and pictures -(ideas I have about it), to show the symbolism and compare it to where/how it was shown in movie also … you might just be surprised what has been uncovered. This is just the beginning … if more is found (which wouldn’t surprise me in the least, especially once we see more footage), I will add to this first post and reply that there is an update each time.

A huge thanks to NM for sending me the recorded draft online, so as to make this gargantuan task much easier! lol I will only show those lines that seemed to hold clues. If more is found, I will add to this post. The pictures I gathered are from stage show footage, from RUG photos, from artistkae's album on Photobucket, and basically anywhere on the Internet I could find photos I didn't already have from splicing youtube vids of footage. lol (And please remember, all this is coming from a “hidden” deeper plot perspective.)

And now…

Are you ready?

First, a short brush-up from movie symbolism (some discerned through movie, *some of it actual symbolism found on websites and through books):

~ Red & Gold - King’s colors
~ *Red & Purple- colors of the Phoenix, which is also symbolic of the king (remember, he had a statue of it in his lair, and the golden part of his bed was that of a Phoenix, which they clearly showed in final lair scene)
~ Green – Queen’s color (though they rarely use it for Christine, and I'm wondering if Gold is also C’s color- both the King’s and the Queen’s- and was in PotO too. More on that and why in second act)
~ Black- color of the “priest” or in other words- an aide to the King
~ *Blue light – truth, divinity, and showing in PotO movie that Music was the truth of who those rulers were
~ Four (4) - Erik's number
~ One (1) - Christine's number
~ Five (5) - their number as a couple - King and Queen of Music…
~ Three (3) – Phantom spirit (from movie symbolism) or “evil’s” number- signifying something dangerous or deadly was now happening or would soon occur.
~ Two (2) - Possession
~ Left side - Erik
~ Right side- Phantom spirit (or evil)
~ *Veils: ignorance
~ *White mask: cruel ruler
~ *Arms- symbolic of power
~ *Darkness- symbolic of death, also hiding
~ Erik- name I use instead of Mr. Y or Phantom, since more people understand him by that first name, though I will also refer to him as “king” here too…and I left in "Phantom" when shown in the libretto lyrics also - but just so you know, Erik, Phantom, and King all are the same person- a man- in how I wrote this.
also, for ease of writing:
BaMS- Beneath a Moonless Sky
OUAT- Once Upon Another Time
TIHYS- Til I Hear You Sing
LND- gee, I wonder? ;-)
DTtH- Devil Take the Hindmost
TBU- The Beauty Underneath[/size]

ADDED NOTE: I didn't realize the pictures would show gargantuan in size! If you right click your mouse and hit "view image" or "show picture" or whatever you have for your program, it will show the full picture- sorry about this...not sure if I should try to replace them or not, since this way you get to see everything in large, full view...


And so, the show begins with these lines:

MADAME GIRY: “Phantasma. City of Wonders… Mr Y. Presents… Marvels, astonishments…Human prodigies. The Ooh La La Girl, five performances daily… Christine Daaé, the soprano of the century” Gone. All gone.

~From the start, this shows there is a mystery to figure out – (Mr. Y- as one of my team brought up- “Myster + y” = mystery) and he was a "man of mystery" too … Christine called not by her married name, but by her maiden one (that kind of concept – the woman taking on her stage name, different from her husband’s – especially a titled gentleman – was not accepted in this century)…Meg (the Ooh La La Girl) linked with the number 5 (what is the King and Queen’s number together (4 – Erik + 1- Christine), but Christine has been absent from his life for a decade, and Meg wishes to be Queen, now singing and performing for him- only him (despite his clear lack of interest in her as a woman). So, in a sense, because she is his star and performing his work, that number fits for what is written here. Together they produce the shows – even if for him it’s just about business and for her it’s much more than that…

FLECK: Of course we’re still here. The freaks, the monstrous, the bizarre… Where else could we exist but here? And after the tragedy… After the master disappeared with the child… After the fire that consumed everything…

~We know the tragedy she is speaking of is Christine’s death, the master disappearing with the child - Erik leaving with his son, Gustave - and now there is mention of a fire, one that was never shown in the finale…a fire…
just like at the end of PotO, where a fire fell five stories through solid stone into Erik’s lair, as seen in mirrors (impossible, except that it was all symbolic)… when the Phoenix becomes reborn it first sets itself on fire, and that fire of Phantasma – the creation of Erik’s and HIS REALM (just as opera house was his realm)- was symbolic of the phoenix, a royal bird (symbolic, of Erik, the king) again taking on another life, a rebirth … and a hint that Erik and Gustave left to do just that. Phantasma was created with Christine in mind to share it with - evidence of that is all throughout his domain. Without her there to share it with him, to rule beside him, that dream of his has died … so that fire spoken of is both actual and symbolic, as in PotO - he has destroyed his realm – consumed everything – and gone on to rebuild, to start a new life, a new dream with his son beside him.

FLECK: Don’t you remember what happened back then, when we… Even we!...
Dared to walk among men (Whispered, softly, gently)
When even a Phantom could dream his dark dreams once again…

~Fleck was his aide so would know about his past … and his past with Christine. I think the “dark dreams” refer to his desires for her to be in his life again. I really don’t think there is any longer any possession of a spirit – also shown through Erik’s gentler nature (which many who’ve seen LND are upset that he’s not the "maniacal, bloodthirsty, crazed killer" any longer, saying it is OOC)- but it makes perfect sense that he’s not – since he broke that spirit’s hold over his life through breaking the three mirrors (in movie), with the aid of the ring that symbolized illumination (11 crystals) and brought illumination to "frighten away the ghost", etc. He’s still formidable at times, and revered with awe and fear, treated much like a king, but he’s no longer the madman he appeared – because that dark spirit is gone. BUT, now there is other evil lurking, waiting to trouble his life and the life of his beloved’s once again…

They play the Coney Island Waltz, which has bits of PotO blended in, during the backstory of Erik as a child in the carnival…if you want to see it, here is RUG’s vid of that song. It could be that they used that part of PotO blended in - to show how far Erik has come along - from a boy in a cage of a freak show- to the owner and ruler of all of his new realm, Phantasma.:


SCENE 1 – Outside Phantasma.
The boardwalk, Coney Island, circa 1907.

From “Heaven by the Sea”

ONLOOKER 4: A volcano that erupts each day at three!

~3- phantom spirit- or “evil’s”- number in movie. A volcano that erupts shows destruction. This is a way to show 3 as dangerous, evil, and befitting of darkness and death … since onlooker “4” said it, this could be showing that the trouble and danger would affect Erik the most, since his number is “4”.

PASSERBY 1: And the Genius who designed it wears a mask!
CROWD (Whispers.): A mask? A mask?
what’s behind it?
BYSTANDERS: What’s behind it?
SPECTATORS: What’s behind it?
OBSERVERS: What’s behind it?
FULL CROWD: What’s behind it?

~THREE times they mention the white mask- and from symbolism, it meant cruel ruler …3 as evil and dangerous…(perhaps that he’s hiding behind it shows that even though he's stepped into the light- entered the world and not hiding below the earth- he’s in the darkness, the cruel ruler once again …)

FIVE times they ask what is behind the mask- (Christine and Erik’s number together in PotO) - and from PotO- “I am the mask you wear, it’s me they hear…” What’s behind the mask is Erik – the ruler of Music – but always with Christine in his heart and his mind, apparent in “Til I Hear You Sing.”

PASSERBY: Look! A Roman colosseum!

~A Roman colosseum? Even for Coney, this is strange…but it fits with PotO hidden plot and the emperor (symbolic of the king) – who had Rome under his far-reaching grasp (Rome symbolism found in Hannibal thread - also Erik had a bust of Nero in his lair, which wore a white half mask, seen in No One Would Listen) – and a colosseum is where the ruler went for his entertainment, to watch his subjects on display…sound familiar? This is also a nod to Erik being the ruler there, in this, his new realm.

And a concert hall that’s bigger than the Met!
ALL BYSTANDERS: (First singly, then building to the full group.)
What’s inside it?
What’s inside it?
What’s inside it?
What’s inside it?

~Concert hall- where music is- FOUR times this is sung- “what’s inside it?” (Can be taken as “who lives there?”) – “4” being Erik’s number – Music who he is and being his domain…(concert hall)

SHOWGIRL 2: And in just two days,
he’ll be there tossing you bouquets.
At our gala premiere.
Picture it!

MEG: (In a private reverie.) I’ll be waiting in the wing,
wound up tighter than a spring,
as the house begins to dim.
And I’ll practice ev’ry line,
hoping desperately to shine.
Shining only for him.

SHOWGIRLS: And before the music dies,
up the audience will rise,
nearly bursting at the brim!
And you’ll stand there in the glow…

MEG: (Wishful.) And perhaps, at last he’ll know…

~2 seemed to show possession in movie – showgirl 2 says that in 2 days, or so Meg hopes, she will possess all of Erik’s admiration and love. Perhaps “at last he’ll know” seems to be a sign that Meg loves Erik and hopes he will at last see her as a prospective bride – and his true queen, not only in business, but in heart.

MEG: And it’s only for you!
SHOWGIRL 1: And you!
SHOWGIRL 2: And you!
SHOWGIRL 3: And you!

~FOUR times they sing this to the crowd – gee, I wonder who it’s really for? lol ;-) (by Meg’s words, we already know it's "only for him" – so 4 times here seems to show the clue, same as PotO symbolism, of 4 referring to Erik, as it was in movie.)

At end of song they sing:

SHOWGIRLS & MEG: We’re so happy that you’re here,
for the season’s big premiere!
And it’s only for you!

~ONE time sung- and the big premiere was written for, sung by, and only for … Christine. This seems to emphasize that 1 is her number (as it was in PotO).

SCENE 2 – The Aerie.

~this scene is #2 - and 2 in the hidden plot symbolism means possession - Erik is possessed by thoughts of Christine and being with her again, just as M. Giry and Meg are possessed with thoughts of what they want to happen regarding Erik...

M. Giry is angry that the king is still besotted with his long absent queen and will pay no attention to her own daughter – remember also, she has no knowledge of what went on between E & C in BaMS, clear from her words of Christine betraying him, leaving him, choosing Raoul over him, etc.- so doesn’t understand that E’s bond to C is even stronger now because of the physical love they shared…

Erik sings to his automaton- Christine (like the mannequin in PotO which appears real at times). He keeps her closed within a special cubicle that has a red and gold tapestry hanging over it, much like he had in the lair (his colors, the colors of his kingdom) … notice the Christine doll is wearing a gold dress with a green tinge. Green = Queen’s color. Gold = King’s color – combined – (possibly it is both their colors) - but the Queen belongs to the King and at present is closed off from him. She is also wearing the necklace, (seen better in the footage) The blue lighting behind her when she holds the veil high (ah, look, a veil- and it covers her face for a short time) and the blue light behind her in the cubicle also shows that is “truth,” that she is Music…

First- her outfit looks gold here. In second picture and in footage, you can see that there is more of a green tinge...



Here’s some footage to see a lot of this song as he performed it:


Notice this- it was in the program – notice all the references to phantom spirit here…


He has a Punjab around her neck (symbolic of the Phantom spirit) the gold frame covering this shows a woman on the right side with her right arm raised (phantom spirit- or evil = right side) and her left hand at the level of her eyes. She also appears to be cupping her ear (as if saying listen, like they did in PotO movie? - listen to the music maybe and a clue that there are hints there.) And she's pointing upward with her right hand - to 3 full flowers at the top right (see pic below) - phantom spirit's number - and since they show pictures from PotO on this page and the chandelier falling- perhaps to show also that he had been possessed/controlled by an evil spirit. Or just a clue that 3 means evil/death (since he has a noose around her neck)- next to those THREE flowers on the RIGHT- are FOUR clovers on the LEFT above Erik's head. (his number, left being his side) On the left side of frame, two flowers are hidden behind three - you can just make them out - 5 is their number as King & Queen, so maybe this shows them as the couple in danger since it shows only them in this pic. Also more symbolism showing their number is five, and it's on the left- his side.

UPDATE! - (5/5/10)- I now have brochure and can see all pictures clearly!! :-D
There ARE three flowers to right - with BLACKENED centers (all fits for phantom spirit/evil)
There ARE four (clovers?) to the left of that - hanging above Erik's head- and two grow from the same stem (perhaps showing he was once possessed by spirit since these flowers and clovers grow on same vine)
AND there is ONE FADED FLOWER to the left of that - "One" being Christine's number. A faded flower- the light has gone out of her as the reporter said - and it's because she's been without her true love and soul mate...

That is DEFINITELY a rope around her neck- in another picture in brochure of Christine in that container
it shows the rope clearly - the sides of it don't touch her neck, they lay on the slopes of her shoulder like a noose-like circlet - AND ONE jewel is suspended from it. The rope is gold. (his color, possibly also her color)- and ONE jewel- her number. This is NOT the necklace he puts around her neck before the performance. It's hard to tell the color of the jewel, but it could be dark green...

Now, about that container- there is a bust of a woman wearing a snake like circlet as a crown (just like I've seen in movies of Cleopatra - she wore the same type of crown- and she was a QUEEN) - This is on the container that holds Christine automaton. Below that picture is a drawing of another woman (a goddess?) in that same kind of container, wrapped in a dress that binds the legs and ankles, same as Christine, only this woman wears a hood. I've seen this picture before - now to figure out where and who it's supposed to be... I think all this is yet another nod that Christine was queen, and with the blue light filling container, Queen of Music. Just like in PotO movie, statues that were divine and royal depicted them (in his lair, and the Venus statue that followed her in the cemetery, one of a few ways they symbolized her as Venus - goddess of love and beauty - showing she was a ruler, with Erik...)
I think ALW did the same thing here.
more updated info below...

In the program page- below- it shows the chandelier crash above this picture – something that phantom spirit was also responsible for…thing is, I’m not sure they ever showed this in the show- she had that necklace around her neck during TIHYS - here she doesn't…so maybe it’s a clue of some kind- or yet another way to add another layer of a stronger foundation for symbolism in movie hidden plot? Phantom spirit= evil- death…okay, that does it- I want to get my hands on this program! lol (by the way- I went to RUG's site of Love Never Dies- their scrapbook also looks as if it's full of hidden plot clues...)

She is wearing the greenish-gold gown and wears green eyeshadow- green, the color of the queen.


ERIK (To the automaton.): Ten long years,
living a mere façade of life.
Ten long years,
wasting my time on smoke and noise.
In my mind,
I hear melodies pure and unearthly,
but I find,
I can’t give them a voice without you!
My Christine..!
My Christine..!
Lost and gone…
Lost and gone…

~TWICE these last lines are sung - possession – he had her, but lost her…

ERIK: The day starts.
The day ends.
Time crawls by.
Night steals in, pacing the floor.
The moments creep,
yet I can’t bear to sleep
‘till I hear you sing…
And weeks pass.
And months pass.
Seasons fly.
Still you don’t walk through the door.
And in a haze.
I count the silent days
‘til I hear you sing once more.

And sometimes,
at night times,
I dream that you are there - -
But wake holding nothing,
but the empty air…
(clearly a reference to BaMS)

And years come.
And years go.
Time runs dry.
Still I ache, down to the core.
My broken soul
can’t be alive and whole,
‘til I hear you sing once more.

And music--
Your music! --
It teases at my ear.
I turn - - and it fades away
And you’re not here!

Let hopes pass,
let dreams pass!
Let them die!
Without you, what are they for?

~(he has made a fantasy land of Phantasma, a dream, but it doesn’t please him without her)

ERIK: I’ll always feel no more that halfway real,

~(shown through his mechanical toys – part skeletal, part flesh – all except for Christine doll, which is the only thing gloriously alive – SHE is his heart and voice, the missing part of him…so his toys that he now creates all have skeletal torsos and heads…not whole, just as he isn't whole without her...)

ERIK: 'till I hear you sing once more!

~Notice the lighting used here. Blue lighting = truth and Music… this is his domain- his throne room if you want to call it that. Where Music works...

’Til I Hear You Sing isn’t just about Christine singing a song once more for Erik so he can hear her voice after being so long without it. Even though he is King of Music and desperately needs it… But closely look at all the lyrics of all of the show Love Never Dies. It’s about WHAT song he has written for her to sing and what it signifies – and by her singing it, once she learns who he is – it being a declaration of her love for him. That is always how he intended it – it’s made clear in his,

ERIK: “…But Christine, what we shared even you can’t ignore,
My Christine! I’ll be no longer denied!
I’ll have you back by my side, My Sweet Christine!”

And in her angry words when she first sees him and the shock fades somewhat-
CHRISTINE: “You’re in each measure of that song-
How dare you try to claim me now!” –

~More on that soon…

Now, back to where I left off …

M. Giry: Can’t you see that the master’s at work?
Can’t you see that his mind’s somewhere else?
Can’t you see that obviously he’s thinking of things more important than you!

PHANTOM: (Warningly.) Careful, Madame. You’re forgetting yourself.

~This sounds so much like an aide speaking about a king – she calls him master- and his response sounds like something a ruler would say to his subject…and 3 times she sings "can't you see..." (3- evil/death- perhaps showing the root of the problems and what led to C.'s death.)

(MADAME GIRY rips the cover off of the mannequin.)

MADAME GIRY: (Contemptuously.) Christine! Christine!

MEG: (Disappointed.) Christine.

~THREE times sung…and only by those who caused her demise…they brought the trouble and the evil through their greed and jealousy…

M. Giry: And who stayed with you,
Helped you and advised you?
We stayed with you,
loved and idolized you!
She betrayed you,
shunned you and despised you!
She chose Raoul, chose his beauty and youth!
It’s long past time you faced up to - - !

~Showing them as the King’s advisors and aides- showing also that M. Giry had no idea that Erik & Christine shared their love that night and Erik then left Christine - AND showing Erik just exactly what M. Giry expects from him…

PHANTOM: Enough!
(Coldly.) You’ll be repaid, as I promised you would.
Now, if you’ve anything else left to say..?

(Without another word, MADAME GIRY exits. For a moment, THE PHANTOM is
thrown. Then he turns back to the automaton, almost as if for support.

~I think it shows him “thrown” once she’s left, because he now lets his angry response fade and shows his true feelings about what has happened- and now realizes the extent of what M. Giry wants. He addressed the subject of pay, but realizes by her final words, just what she does want – for him to marry Meg and formally make her his queen – but he didn’t address that issue, and she left without a word as if upset…

Something very interesting – as I was collecting pictures, I found some pics where it looks as if Erik grabbed a gun and faced M. Giry. It’s in the London footage- it goes so fast and is on for such a short time, it’s easily missed, unless you go step by step. I’m not sure what else this could be (it would make sense to show it early, and how Meg got a hold of it later). I’m also not sure if it fits here in this scene – it's not in the libretto. Like I said, I’m only going by what footage I have, but here are those pics. Notice also he grabs it with his LEFT hand – as in movie, his side, the side symbolizing Erik is left. In fact, if you notice, Erik is left-handed throughout all of this show. (right click mouse to see full pictures):


Troubled, once M. Giry leaves, he turns to his automaton again, "as if for support" the closest he has to Christine, to confide in her…

ERIK: Oh Christine!
My Christine!
Yes, you fled from my face once before,
but Christine,
what we shared, even you can’t ignore,
my Christine.
I’ll be no longer denied!
I’ll have you back by my side,
my sweet Christine!

~FIVE times he sings her name- refers to her as “mine”- showing them as the couple meant to be. The King and Queen together – side by side. M. Giry’s attack made clear to him just what she wants of him, but he cannot do- for him, it is and always will be Christine. She fled from his face ONCE before – to me that signifies the first time she removed his mask – what they shared she can’t ignore – BaMS …and I’ll explain what the rest of those lyrics seem to show soon…

(He breaks off, overcome. Then, back in control of himself.)

ERIK: And come what may,
I swear to you somehow, someway,
I will hear you sing once more!

~The King of Music again wants to hear the music that makes him whole- and he WILL hear her- his Queen of Music- sing her words of love and for him alone.
Now, with M. Giry’s desire made clear to him – he is that much more determined to bring Christine to the island and fulfill his plans...

SCENE 3 – Pier 69, Manhattan --
Hmmm… would like to know if the number 69 means anything in numerological terms – I know what it means otherwise. lol 0-:-) (sorry…)

LATECOMER: Has the Persephone docked yet?

~She arrives on the Persephone (Persephone the wife of the god Hades, King of the Underworld. In movie, Persephone was in the frame of Madame Giry’s, standing atop a firebird (another name for Phoenix), symbolic of Erik – “King” of his underworld at the opera house. Christine was his “Queen” – and Persephone was Queen of the Underworld.)

They mention the Astors – John Jacob Astor and his wife sailed aboard the Titanic and died there.
Colonel Vanderbilt- also a man of great wealth.
and Oscar Hammerstein- a well-known composer of music

and then…

HAMMERSTEIN is forgotten. All eyes turn. Suddenly, framed in the gateway,
clutching the hand of a Young boy, stands CHRISTINE DAAÉ. She is nearly
obscured by veils and cloche hat, but she is gorgeous, iconic - - every inch a star.

There is a moment of awed silence as the onlookers take in this vision… Then
pandemonium. Flashbulbs explode, as the crowd surges around her.

REPORTERS & PHOTOGRAPHERS: Christine Daaé! Christine Daaé! Over here! This way!

Here is Christine. A huge musical composer is now ignored because the Queen of Music has arrived. All attention leaves the famous - and she is widely recognized by everyone though she hasn’t performed in a decade and never performed in America. She is “nearly obscured by veils and a cloche hat”. (veils mean ignorance, and she is ignorant of who has brought her here). But all eyes turn her way and know her. They KNEW she was coming, knew it was her, though Erik hadn’t even told his closest aides. Perhaps the symbolism of her coming on the Persephone was to SHOW that the Queen had arrived – Erik, king of his new magical, musical kingdom—and notice the colors she is wearing. The same colors of her cape on the rooftop- the Phoenix’s colors (red and purple, like the sheets on his Phoenix bed in PotO)- phoenix symbolic of Erik (red also his color)- showing she belongs to him. She is also wearing red around her throat (Erik’s color) – she is his. Just as in Masquerade in PotO movie, when six people bowed and curtsied to the king when he entered, wearing his colors (how they knew him) everyone is now treating Christine like the Queen she is.


And the reporters- though knowing she is married- refer to her as “Christine Daae” - because they recognize her as not belonging to Raoul? – why else would the libretto refer to her as that, not just in dialogue, but also in narrative- and not Christine de Chagny? Very odd- unless they’re showing symbolism here that the marriage to Raoul wasn’t truly real. In name, yes. But that’s all it was…or… and here’s another thought…are you ready?

In movie, it’s been suggested that the whole final lair scene: her in wedding gown, putting the ring on her left finger before she kissed Erik, as she vowed before God “God give me courage to show you, you are not alone”- then kissing him- and later putting the ring in his hand as he did earlier with hers – “an eternity of this” (companion book screenplay shows her slipping ring onto his finger) etc, was symbolic of an actual wedding between them. If Raoul thought him dead, as he later states when seeing Madame Giry for first time – he would think his marriage to her legal. So, if Erik is still alive, and we know he is, his “I’ll be no longer denied!” in TIHYS- makes no sense.

Think about it- ERIK left HER – so who is denying him and has been denying him?
She sure wasn’t, evident by her admission in BaMS AND her coming to him earlier, making love with him... –
-and Raoul thought he was dead and thought Christine believed that too. If the "no longer being denied" was about her now being with Raoul- that still doesn't make sense to word it like that...ERIK was the one who made it possible.

ERIK walked away, left her alone – left France that night – he thinks she married Raoul immediately, from his words in BaMS, but from her words in OUAT, – Erik chose to turn the page of their story – and she sings that because of that - “I made choices too” – which, to me, shows she didn’t marry until she knew she must – when she learned she was pregnant with Gustave. I can’t see her leaving Erik’s bed, after knowing that her heart and soul and body belongs to him, and immediately going to marry Raoul…Also, had she done that, how would she then know for sure that Gustave was Erik's - and know it for a fact? But if she TRULY did belong to Erik in word (vows) AND deed FIRST – in marriage – (and we know she belonged to him first in body) – THEN Erik’s lines make sense, those lines, that once more he would have her by his side and he would no longer be denied …
He would have his Queen back since she did belong to him – since he now had a kingdom to again share with her – and damn the consequences!

Another thing that gives this idea more weight: Even after correcting the reporters that she is married and a Vicomtesse, they continue to address her as Christine Daae – completely ignoring Raoul in that regard. To me, them refusing to say her last name is symbolic that perhaps…they never were married – legally – since no one acknowledges it. It is THOUGHT they were, because Raoul thought Erik was dead. But he’s not dead…and she married Erik first - symbolically… they even had their wedding night (later in BaMS) but then he left her because of his resurgence of his fears, etc. (just some ideas I’m tossing around if indeed the lair scene was symbolic of a marriage –the PotO movie deeper story was a high fantasy, remember, so perhaps that would have been considered a marriage ceremony for a fantasy … ;-) And perhaps LND is also a appears to be, with all the symbolism!)
Later on I'll show something else I found (when I get to that scene) that also makes me think that the marriage between her and Raoul wasn't truly real, meaning legitimate (since Erik was still alive) - and might be symbolic to suggest that...

RAOUL: Her name is Madame de Chagny! Stand aside! Stand aside, please!
(Her husband appears. Dapper and handsome, brusque, irate.)
No pictures, do you hear? No pictures of my wife, no pictures of the boy!


REPORTER 3: What do you plan to do here at Coney?
GUSTAVE: (Shy.) I… want to learn how to swim.
(The crowd hoots and laughs, and the boy shrinks back against CHRISTINE.)
RAOUL: I said, leave the child alone! (He looks around anxiously.) For God’s sake, didn’t this Mr Y send someone to receive us?

~Interesting that Reporter 3 brought up the question that led to the tragic finale (since 3 means evil and death)…I just have to add this- at least Raoul wasn’t always so cruel to the boy, in that he tried to protect him from the reporters. Notice though how he refers to him as “the boy” and “the child”- never as “my son.” I think he knew, all along, deep down he knew…otherwise, why treat him so harshly all the time, so distantly, as if he merely suffered Gustave’s presence in their lives?

RAOUL: The Vicomtesse has been engaged by the well-known impresario –
REPORTER 3: Well-known?!
REPORTER 1: No one’s ever seen the guy!

~This shows that Erik has kept himself hidden…in the darkness again…perhaps why they show the reference to phantom spirit? He’s again hiding behind a mask…

They play the music of “Come and meet the master” when they arrive to collect Christine and her family.

FLECK: It’s a fun house where the mirrors
all reflect what’s real.
FLECK & GANGLE: (Whispered.) And reality’s as twisted
as the mirrors reveal.
FLECK, GANGLE & SQUELCH: And the fun is finding out
what the mirrors show…

~The coach they arrive in is illusive, deceiving – first empty, then suddenly revealing the aides of the king. Perhaps these lines are to us, the viewers, telling us to find out the clues once again that are hidden…also a hidden reference to story that Erik is the one behind it all.

The banners by the gates leading into Phantasma are all red and gold – the king's colors- and the entrance to his domain, beyond the gates, is filled with blue light. Music’s domain.


REPORTER 2: Eh, I bet she ain’t got it no more, not like the old days. Sure, she’s pitch perfect… But empty inside. Like the flame went out of somethin’.

~This shows first- that she hasn't sung since "the old days" - and that Christine feels the same way Erik does (as he sings in ‘Til I Hear You Sing”)- she hasn’t felt whole without him, just as he hasn’t felt whole without her…because they are one – in spirit, in body, in heart.
She is also the spirit of Music – so she’s “pitch perfect”- but since he’s not been with her, the flame has gone out and she’s empty inside … (think of the way she was when she missed him those three months in PotO – waking up silent and resigned … putting on false smiles, but not really seeming happy…) my guess is she’s been this way for ten years, her one happiness – Gustave. Every time she sees their son, she sees Erik in him, so that helps to console…but that doesn’t prevent her from missing her king and who they were and are together…Christine has lost her soul mate – Erik. And she’s been empty inside, because of it.

SCENE 4 – The hotel.
A hotel suite. Evening.

Scene “4” – is all about Erik and directed to him – from the music box that symbolizes him, to him re-entering Christine’s life … and, though Beneath a Moonless Sky is really about their reunion and what they experienced as a couple – it is when Erik learns she loved him, that she would have followed him anywhere, and why she can’t do so anymore, because she had to make a choice … so, scene “4” – is all for and about Erik, from the moment his son receives the music box, symbolizing him, to her words and feelings for him. This starts after Gustave received the music box from "Mr. Y"...

GUSTAVE: Father, please, come play with me –
RAOUL: Please tell the boy the answer’s no!
(In the moment of silence that follows, CHRISTINE idly plays a few notes from
the sheet Music on the piano.)
(Through gritted teeth.) Must you make that racket?
CHRISTINE: It’s the aria I’m to sing tomorrow.
RAOUL: It hurts my head.

~A- Erik’s song to and about the love he shares with Christine hurts Raoul.
B- Raoul doesn’t speak directly to Gustave, but tells Christine to speak to “the boy”, showing the great distance, as he’s shown before. Which leads me to believe, he suspected Gustave’s true paternity all along. Also, he wants nothing to do with the music box, which makes sense since it symbolizes Erik.
C- I copied and pasted the lyrics from the "recorded draft" NM sent me- which I take it to mean the official work of ALW. Whether it's a mistake- or not- notice how "Music" is capitalized and "on the piano" - perhaps a hint referring to the music box, which symbolizes Erik, and showing a clue of Erik actually BEING Music, the King... Just as in English subtitles in the PotO movie, they showed him sing to Christine, with this onscreen: "Music, you have come here..." as if in direct address.)

GUSTAVE: (Crestfallen.) Father never plays with me,
doesn’t he love me?

~In answer, she sings a song to Gustave when he asks if his father loves him - but clearly the song she sings is all about Erik and looking inside the heart to find love, and not paying attention to what is on the outside…

CHRISTINE: (Suddenly serious.) Learn from someone who knows…
Make sure you don’t forget.
Love you misunderstand
is love that you’ll regret…
(She trails off… Lost, perhaps, in memory. After a long moment…)
GUSTAVE: Mother..?
(Prompting her.) Look with your heart…
And not with your eyes…
The heart can’t be fooled.
CHRISTINE: The heart is too wise.
GUSTAVE: Forget what you think - -
CHRISTINE: Ignore what you hear –
GUSTAVE & CHRISTINE: Look with your heart!
It always sees clear.
GUSTAVE : Love is not always beautiful,
not at the start…
CHRISTINE: But open your arms…
And close your eyes tight…
Look with your heart…
And when it finds love…
Your heart will be right.

~She even grows distant, as if remembering what she and Erik shared (“She trails off… Lost, perhaps, in memory.” seems directed to the reader, and Gustave has to prompt her to finish the song.

Now let’s look at the toy. Gustave is given a musical toy by Erik- it is of a composer composing on a piano – notice its hand is raised - in brochure, with Gustave, it's the right hand. With Erik, it's unclear what hand and in SHOW itself during BaMS- it is clearly the left hand that is raised (left signifying Erik) – see pic below.
Perhaps this is symbolic that Gustave will be given his real father…and that Erik will give him everything he ever wanted…his attention, his time, his love, as well as all material needs and, in fact, all he owns - later we see evidence that this is true...) Perhaps also they show this picture of Gustave with it, and then later, Erik, in the same manner, (2 pics below) to show- like Father, like son.


Top left corner - we see a picture from the program with Erik bent over that same music box, and in the same way as figurine- also dressed alike- as if showing it's supposed to symbolize him…


Beneath a Moonless Sky … (addition- 4/26/10)- a friend (XxBrlyxX) went to see the show and wrote out everything, as it happened, for me. I added her notes here... also, I added the song, if anyone wants to hear it...

When Christine winds the toy up, it plays a different song than before – from PotO – “You have come here” (beginning of MOTN and PONR)… specifically this part of it: from MOTN: "Since the moment I first heard you sing I have needed you with me to serve me, to sing" and from PONR "In your mind you've already succumbed to me, dropped all defenses, completely succumbed to me" and her part "In my mind I've already imagined out bodies entwining, defenseless and silent..."- each of those songs of PotO showing how he brought her there to him, to be with him in every sense… and now he has done the same thing again. Immediately she understands the message of the music box …


She freezes. Then whirls around. And CHRISTINE and THE PHANTOM gaze at one another for the first time in ten years. A long, lingering gaze. Then…

** In show, this is what has been changed to happen then:

:rose: The Phantom arrives at her balcony door and walks in and she is shocked to see him and backs away instantly.
:rose: He slowly walks towards her and stares at her and then opens his arms and after a couple of seconds she runs into his arms and they hug tightly.
:rose: Then she quickly removes herself from him, looks at him and then slaps him across the face and moves away.
:rose: He looks at her confused and opens his arms once again and moves towards her trying to calm her down and reassure her but she continues to move away.
:rose: Then she goes behind the piano and starts singing...

~First I must say- I really love the new addition to the show. How she runs to him and eagerly embraces him, (overjoyed to see him) then she steps back and slaps him (probably upon remembering how he left her!) lol It fits so much better for such an emotional reunion and for all that follows in this very passionate song, and the next…

Here’s the show footage of the first lines:


CHRISTINE: I should have known that you’d be here…
I should have known it all along.
This whole arrangement bears your stamp.
You’re in each measure of that song.
How dare you try and claim me now!
How dare you come invade my life!

~Again - she recognized Love Never Dies as not just being a song to sing (now understanding why she was so drawn to it, because of who its author is, the spirit she also shares – Music – and a true part of her nature she’s had to deny for the past 10 years - remember the reporters who say she’s “empty inside”- the fire having gone out…). But now, in understanding who the true composer of the aria really is - she knows just what that song means and exactly what he wants. The song – her singing it – is her surrender to him, to his claim on her as his Queen again.

She is at first angry and runs behind the piano. On top of piano behind the music box is a bowl of pink roses – or at least the lighting they now have on them makes them appear pink (pink in the rose meaning “a lesser love” in symbolism of roses and their colors- pink roses always shown with Raoul) – remember the ever-changing table in her dressing room in PotO movie that depicted her feelings? Here she is fighting Erik in these first lines of song—likely very shocked and still angry, also at herself for realizing she still wants him and that he can affect her so strongly—and she runs behind piano in a defensive way, where the pink roses are, the symbolism that relates to Raoul, as if to hide behind her relationship with him…

As Erik approaches, look at the golden walkway (gold his color). It appears to have a statue on the LEFT - of an angel? (Left means Erik, remember, as does the Angel…) – all of the furnishings in her room are red and gold… (The king’s colors – colors of his kingdom – and blue light shines on them both –they are both music.)

CHRISTINE: “I should have known that you’d be here…I should have known it all along!”


CHRISTINE: “This whole arrangement bears your stamp!”


CHRISTINE: “You’re in each measure of that song…” (notice that here the left hand is raised on the musical toy)


ERIK: “That long ago night..."
CHRISTINE: "That night …”


~Here are two pictures showing her bedroom suite without the blue lighting (a clearer picture is shown in program which I copied below too for ease of looking at- even the piano shines gold there and the lamp is very red on the page of the program - notice also the gold statue of a woman on the left side of archway- Venus? Someone similar? I have no doubt it's supposed to symbolize Christine, in this, her suite.)



PHANTOM: Oh Christine…
My Christine..!
In that time when the world thought me dead,
my Christine,
on the night just before you were wed,
ah, Christine!
You came and found where I hid,
don’t you deny that you did,
that long ago night..!

~FOUR times he sings Christine- showing her that she belongs to him. “4” being Erik’s number.

The lyrics are pretty clear – lol- and we’ve discussed it in depth on the other thread. So I won’t go into all of them here… though this is my favorite song in the musical. :heart:
I love the changed version from the London footage I recently heard:

CHRISTINE: I stole to your side, tormented by my choice,
I couldn’t see your face, but trembled at your voice…

~The next line makes clear that her trembling was due more to passion than fear, since she then sings, “And I touched you…” (If it was fear of HIM she felt, and not the darkness as she always claimed in PotO, she wouldn’t have reached out to him first…)

Now let’s look at the old original lines that made no sense (that is, if not looking at it from a hidden plot perspective that she already belonged to the King) –

CHRISTINE: I stole to your side, to tell you I must go,
I couldn’t see your face, but sensed you even so…

~ALW changed those lines, probably because they seemed confusing to many…
But looking at those lines from a hidden plot perspective:

She made the choice for Erik in final lair scene. He told Raoul to take her and go, because he was afraid the mob would harm or kill her. At the end, she sings to Erik, begging him to come find her, showing he IS her choice… so, with that in mind and that her choice was Erik…

He had not returned for her after she looked back at him and sung into his mind (her mouth was closed in movie when she sang to him, as she’d done before): “Share each day with me, each night, each morning...”
So, tormented, she goes in search of him to tell him – not that she must go – leave Erik and be with Raoul - (like I said in another thread on this, that makes absolutely no sense that she would seek him out on a dark, moonless night and after time has elapsed to tell him such a thing upon first seeing him again, when she would have no reason to go to him to do so and could have just stayed away) – but instead she intended to tell him- “I must go” – meaning to be with HIM. Telling Erik she must go with him, wherever he will go. That she made her choice, THAT choice. Later she sings “I’d have followed anywhere you led” – which emphasizes this idea, that she was willing to go on the run with him.

That she touches him immediately afterward makes that idea seem even more probable.
But she sings, “to tell you I must go” – NOT “and told you I must go”-

Since this song is all about what they said and did – as well as what they held back and didn’t say, with the way that is worded, it shows me that Christine, in her heart, had already decided to go with Erik, wherever he would go and THAT is why she came there that night. She sought him out – and in changed lyrics- “tormented by my choice” (it was a fearful thing to leave all security behind to take on a life with him, since he is now a wanted man, etc) and that she “trembled at his voice,” – so instead of speaking those words, overcome by being with him again and hearing him - instead, she reached out to him, showing him she still wanted him and wanted to be with him.

Hidden plot wise – the “choice” wasn’t about being with Raoul. It was Erik she had chosen, evident in all the symbolism they had for those final scenes. Erik had been her choice, even after he commanded her to go, fearing the mob would find her. Just like she returned to him, despite that he’d ordered her to go, to give him her ring to break away from the darkness, she returned again, to tell him she MUST be with him and would go with him anywhere. So if she’s tormented by her choice, it isn’t about “choosing Raoul” because she didn’t choose him before this (regarding final lair).

ERIK: And I felt you –
CHRISTINE & ERIK: And I heard those ravishing refrains…
CHRISTINE: The music of your pulse –
ERIK: The singing in your veins –

~Notice the references to music here ... showing them as the spirit of Music, and that they WERE music.

It appears in movie as if she kisses Erik three times – three – breaking him from the darkness, helping him to see the light…
Guess how many times they make love?

ERIK: “And I caught you…”
CHRISTINE: “And I kissed you…”
ERIK: “And I took you…”
CHRISTINE: “And caressed you…”

ERIK & CHRISTINE: “And nothing mattered then, except for you and I. Again, and then again …”

~Three times.

So perhaps again symbolism of “3” to show three separate acts of love (like the three kisses in movie), to show both of them breaking away from all mindsets of any lingering darkness with the one thing that could destroy it – their love – and through it, banishing all earlier fears that kept them apart - also shown by these words “I felt no longer scared… I felt no longer shy…As soul gazed into soul …I saw you pure and whole … a woman and a man, no more and yet no less …”
and more…

** In show, this is what happens:

:rose: At 'How dare you try to claim me now! How dare you come invade my life!' She is now slowly moving towards him...
:rose: The Phantom then starts singing and again moves closer to her but she again moves away to the other side of the stage
:rose: Then he reminds her of the night and she turns and has her back to him remembering it
:rose: He continues to sing and walks slowly towards her, and then stops at her side once she has finished singing and then he turns his back to her too and then they're singing with their backs to each other
:rose: She slowly starts to turn round and then at 'I felt no longer scared, I felt no longer shy' she touches his hand and they look at each other and then move closer to each other, making it look like they're about to kiss
:rose: Christine then recollecting herself swiftly moves away from him again
:rose: At 'And I kissed you!' The Phantom is standing right behind Christine and he reaches his right hand so it's inches away from hers
:rose: She puts her left hand inches away from his right, and then puts her right hand inches away from his left hand and then they both slowly raise their arms together until The Phantom releases his power from her and moves away singing 'And I caught you!'
:rose: Then there's more of walking away and moving closer and moving away again, but every time they move closer to each other they look like they're about to kiss but then one of them moves away.

Here’s some pics of the song (please right click to see all of pictures):

ERIK & CHRISTINE: “We said things in the dark
we never dared to say...”



ERIK: “And... ”


ERIK: “I... caught you!”


CHRISTINE: “And I kissed you!”


note: These were from London footage why the last two pics I took show the part with Christine as if she’s praying, pleading superimposed on this.

PHANTOM: And when it was done,
before the sun could rise,
ashamed of what I was,
afraid to see your eyes,
I stood while you slept,
and whispered a goodbye.
And slipped into the dark
beneath the moonless sky.

ERIK: And I loved you!

CHRISTINE: Oh, I loved you!

ERIK: And I left you!

CHRISTINE: How I loved you!

ERIK: And I had to - -
Both of us knew why…

CHRISTINE: We both knew why…

~Before dawn came, the shame came back to haunt Erik for all he 'd done, the fear that she would regret their night together, maybe even the knowledge that he couldn’t take her with him, so he left her – and both understood why. At end of PotO he commanded her to go, to save her from the mob, telling her he intended to stay behind and to forget him – so it isn’t a stretch to believe he would want to spare her from whatever difficulty life would now hold for him, to be on the run and hunted down, not even sure how he would survive, much less how he would be able to take care of her.

He slipped into the dark – but from what I can tell of this song, they were outside, so to say he slipped into the dark beneath a moonless sky seems repetitive – unless the dark he slipped into means he went back into hiding, back into his darkness, though not necessarily the evil of it. Just showing that he’d hidden from her again.

Now let’s look at the intro they use at that first moment they see each other, after such a long separation …and remember where you heard it before…

Journey to the cemetery (from PotO) –

This music was played, when, in the hidden plot, Christine made her choice … to go to search out Erik and enter his world, taking off alone for the cemetery, dressed like a bride of darkness, carrying a withering bouquet, because she could no longer live without him, after three months of being absent from him and seeing him that brief time at the ball when he stressed to her that they were both bound to the Phantom (in subtitles)…in companion book it says she stayed awake all night, until she reached a decision. And she did, escaping Raoul, who sat outside her door, and going to the cemetery alone, to seek Erik and become HIS bride. Shown by all the symbolism they used in those scenes.

Though much of the music was repeated throughout PotO- just as it is in LND- that intro is only used ONCE in the movie. (once, perhaps relating to her and her feelings, since one is her number)

And that same Journey to the Cemetery intro is used right before this beautiful song… which tells of how Christine made her choice … to go to search out Erik and re-enter his world, taking off alone on a dark, moonless night, because she could no longer live without him, after having been absent from him for so long, and upon finding him – she touched him and he felt her … and from there she held him, kissed him, caressed him – showing her choice – until his barriers were shattered and he kissed, caressed, held her too, each of them expressing their love for each other through their actions. (In Wandering Child, that is the time of movie where they speak outright of their love in the Spanish subtitles) – She shows her choice, to be HIS bride - obvious when she sings of waking up the the next morning to swear her love, and that she would have followed anywhere he led, and told him over and over again she loved him -

CHRISTINE: And I loved you.
Yes, I loved you!
I’d have followed anywhere you led.
I woke to swear my love,
and found you gone instead.

ERIK: And I loved you!

CHRISTINE: Oh, I loved you!

ERIK: And I left you!

CHRISTINE: How I loved you!

~How many times did she tell him “I loved you” ?
FOUR times – his number.
How many times did he tell her he loved her?
ONE time - her number.
FIVE times they spoke of their love for each other- their number as a couple together, as King and Queen.

Now look at the similarities. They played the intro before Beneath a Moonless Sky and right at the point she saw him again – to me this further solidifies the idea that in the movie, that’s exactly what she was doing at that point also – going to the cemetery to search out and be with Erik again, to become his bride, having made her choice. (It wasn’t about visiting her father’s grave, though she did sing to him for his help at points in her WYWSHA song – but that entire trip there was about finding Erik and giving herself to him, in marriage, and THAT is why she sneaked past Raoul, evading him, and went alone.)

** In show, this is what happens:

:rose: At 'And when it was done, before the sun could rise ...' The Phantom walks round Christine and faces the audience with his back to her as she watches him
:rose: Then when she sings 'And I loved you!' The Phantom immediately turns to look at her with a look of disbelief on his face ---
:rose: Then when she says 'I'd have followed anywhere you led' he looks to the ground and you can see the frustration and regret in his face and he moves away from her once again
:rose: Then when they're exchanging their true true feelings to each other, 'And I loved you! And I left you! How I loved you! etc etc' they again move swiftly closer to each other and stare at each other intensely and get closer and closer and again look like they're really going to kiss this time!
:rose: Then the Phantom says breathlessly (in a whisper) 'And now?' and then Christine moves her head away and looks at him in the face and says 'How can you talk of now?' and takes a step back and then sings 'For us...' and then in a trembling voice 'There is no now.'
:rose: Then the Phantom agains opens his arms slightly and moves towards her but she again moves back quickly and turns away and moves towards the balcony door.
:rose: She turns back and they stare at each other and then he follows her onto the balcony.

CHRISTINE: How can you talk of now?
For us –
(She breaks off.) There is no now.

(She sweeps out onto the balcony, and he follows. Together, against the night
sky, with the world at their feet… And yet irreparably apart.)

~After singing the above, she says “There is no now” – referring to them.
Remember the spoken word of PotO, when they would break off from song or speak then sing- and how those spoken lines always had to do with the Angel of Music – THEM in some way. Christine, Erik, or them both. (including her silent “I love you” at end)
This seems like further support for that idea, here, and for the movie too.

Now, to close this part of the act, how about a manip of what SHOULD have happened sometime in Beneath a Moonless Sky? (and almost did) :wink:


:heart: :heart: :rose: :heart: :heart::

Also, please feel free to discuss on this thread - it's fine to do so, since I'm putting any additions, etc in first post and will always edit there when I need to. :heart:

ACT ONE- PART TWO coming soon…
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